Report 90
Report #90 Skillset: Ninjakari Skill: Illgathoru Org: Paladins Status: Completed Nov 2008 Furies' Decision: This was approved and implemented Problem: Illgathoru provides what is a 3800+ Wounds required SWING only blademaster affliction (who can't even power swing) for what is 3 momentum, 2 with power, grapple ender. It isn't even reflective of the other wounds in the same ability (all "heavy" warrior wounds). It also provides two forms of passive instakill that require regeneration, via the Trans skill. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Remove Disembowel from Illgathoru, replace vomit in Ninombhi with OpenGut (this is the low end momentum modifier, numb/snaprib/etc). Add VomitBlood to the Gut yank for Illgathoru. VomitBlood is a "heavy" warrior wound, in line with the skill cost/other modifiers. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Raise the ka cost of Illgathoru to 750 and have it drop two momentum levels. It delivers a regen-based time instakill that cannot be cured by allheale and was recently buffed to shorter time, thus justifying the cost. You also gain one momentum on the grapple itself. Player Comments: ---on 11/21 @ 18:45 writes: I agree with this. I believe it's gotten to the point that many (most?) ninjakari rely on this to make their quick kills as opposed to making an effort to build momentum to use their trans ability. ---on 11/21 @ 18:47 writes: I support this. Get rid of disembowel from Ninjakari, It is all you ever see for a reason and being disembowled within the first couple attacks and then a few times over during a fight is just ridiculous. ---on 11/21 @ 23:28 writes: I, as well, support this proposal to Illgathoru due to the above mentioned reasonings not only talked about, but witnessed personally. ---on 11/22 @ 03:42 writes: Not sure what ninombhi has to do with this, anyway, vomit blood is hardly comparable to sliced tendons and severed nerves. I agree though that illgathoru could use a nerf, there -is- no reason to use ughathalogg over it, but ughathalogg is also a pretty sucky insta especially compared to the tahtetso one, however that's not what this is about so. What if illgathoru only caused disembowel at level 4+ momentum, and did ruptured gut or heavy bleeding before that? There are already skills that cause a different aff on higher momentum levels so it should be possible. ---on 11/22 @ 11:11 writes: Regardless of "how effective" you think these warrior afflictions are, they are given at these wounding levels for warriors, why exactly is it that you feel critical wounds should be given at a much easier state to accomplish? The reason Ninombhi was brought into this was so that you wouldn't have a duplicate affliction, I passed an affliction on par with wounding afflictions at the tier that Ninumbhi has and brought vomitblood up to the "heavy" wounds tier. There's simply no need for two regen based instakills. If your trans skill is so bad, why wasn't it envoyed over akogh? Certainly the trans skill would be more important were it extremely lacking? ---on 11/23 @ 19:31 writes: Okay, first, ninombhi causes "vomiting", not "vomiting blood". Second, you can't directly compare warrior and monk wounds. Warriors can lunge to cause a lot of wounds fast, monks get boost which isn't very practical at low momentum and cause barely any wounds, instead they use momentum to determine affs and are much easier to slow down or even stop at the start than warriors. Also, to get off an illgathoru requires two actions, and if you stall the monk at the right time you can just writhe and get zero affs from it, and should you happen to get disemboweled, you have 12 seconds of time to cure it which should be plenty unless you were locked to begin with. ---on 11/23 @ 21:41 writes: Illgathoru's disembowel can just be swapped with vomiting blood from BC, ninombhi doesn't need replacing in that regard. Getting off an illgathoru is pretty easy given steelgrip, and I believe given the changes to grapple, it's not particularly hard to get balance back to yank before the enemy writhes off. I still can't see how you can reasonably defend an instakill that takes 2 moves to start (can't say that I've pulled off a burstorgans in 2 moves, and I'm fairly artied up/demi), takes 12 seconds to heal, requires a regeneration to gut cure (of which ninjas have 3, which leads to easy stacking) that's delayed and isn't stopped by allheale anymore. No class should ever get 2 timed instakills that can be started at near the same time ---on 11/24 @ 04:49 writes: I support all of this except for the vomitblood part because vomitblood is a totally useless affliction, heavy wounds or not. Just make it give rupturegut (also a heavy wounds affliction), and if what I've heard about regeneration cures curing in alphabetical order is correct, burstorgans will always cure before it ---on 11/24 @ 20:47 writes: I ask again, why exactly does it need to be a regen cure? Keep in mind that Illgathrou can be performed at 0 momentum. Yank is 75, Illgathoru 175. Ninshi + Raze is 200. Both of these fit at m0 and m1. All you need is a proned opponent or someone who isn't guarding gut, and from being someone who has to deal with stance/parry 99% of the time the default position is legs/head. Other modifiers such as steelgrip just add icing to the cake, but the magnitude of the wounds on this particular modifier are ridiculous compared to other specs. The comparable "heavy/critical" afflictions come at 450, 475, 500 ka costs for everyone else. ---on 11/25 @ 04:02 writes: Rupture gut is the ashlamkh gut affliction I believe as well, tbh you're running out of warrior affs to the gut, heh. ---on 11/25 @ 11:32 writes: You're right, it's given by ashlamkh. What about 100 extra bleeding + opengut then? For those who don't know, opengut is a medium wound aff cured by marjoram that does minor bleed/prone on a tick ---on 11/25 @ 18:20 writes: Good with Ceren's choice ---on 11/25 @ 18:44 writes: I'm fine with it as well. ---on 11/25 @ 19:38 writes: I'm cool with that